horse training question/ throwing head?
Jen33 asked:
I am training my 3 year old paint gelding. He has just started out and I am finally at the point where he SOMEWHAT knows what to do. He goes just fine. Stopping is sort of a chore, but we are working on that. When turning he sometimes throws his head around to protest. I dont want this to become a habit. Is this okay and is he just doing this because he is just getting used to everything, or could this become a problem? I do not want to use a tie down, so please do not state that as an option because that will not help when training. Thanks everyone
I do not want to use a martingale…it is pretty much the same as a tie down… I would like to figure out some sort of technique
I’m using a broken bit and not pulling to hard…it just seems as if he is being stubborn (which he always is, even on the ground…but he is getting better)
he’s completely fine with stopping…he’s completely fine briddling him up and taking it off…and he does do turns….it just seems like sometimes he does this when he wants to go a different way or is getting annoyed
he has a pretty low set head… and I would perfer not to use a hackamore since he is just getting broke and he takes the bit just fine
I am training my 3 year old paint gelding. He has just started out and I am finally at the point where he SOMEWHAT knows what to do. He goes just fine. Stopping is sort of a chore, but we are working on that. When turning he sometimes throws his head around to protest. I dont want this to become a habit. Is this okay and is he just doing this because he is just getting used to everything, or could this become a problem? I do not want to use a tie down, so please do not state that as an option because that will not help when training. Thanks everyone
I do not want to use a martingale…it is pretty much the same as a tie down… I would like to figure out some sort of technique
I’m using a broken bit and not pulling to hard…it just seems as if he is being stubborn (which he always is, even on the ground…but he is getting better)
he’s completely fine with stopping…he’s completely fine briddling him up and taking it off…and he does do turns….it just seems like sometimes he does this when he wants to go a different way or is getting annoyed
he has a pretty low set head… and I would perfer not to use a hackamore since he is just getting broke and he takes the bit just fine
Tags: Habit, Hackamore, Horse Training, Martingale, Old Paint, Paint Gelding
December 13th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
use a martingale
December 13th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
What type of bit are you using? And how hard are you pulling to turn him? He could be saying “ouch”. Depending on what type of bit you are using, it might be pinching him when you turn his head. And if you have to pull hard, it may be grating in his mouth.
Edit: Hmmm… I had a similar problem with my paint gelding. He was tossing his head and such, but we were using a hackamore. After I rode him for a while, it just went away. He always kept a high headset though.
Edit 2: It sounds like he is just being stubborn. I know it helped my boy when I played with him more out of the saddle. When I spent more time brushing him and just playing with him, he was more willing to listen to me. I’m not doubting you spending time with your horse, but it helped with mine.
Making him circle helped too. When he wanted to turn, I let him turn, but I kept turning him until I wanted him to stop. It made it seem like it was my decision all along.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Get a vet to check out his mouth for any obvious problems like wolf teeth. You could try him with a hackmore if the problem is that he just doesn’t like the bit. Lunge him with the bridle on and if he still acts the same then you can rule out your hands not being soft enough.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:25 am
One thing I did when training young horses is alot of flexing. In which you keep your horse in one place and just bend there neck from one side to the other. Holding it on each side for 10 to 15 seconds if possible. This helps your horse to except the bit and pressure when asked. Or when you do ask him to turn take your time and slide your hand down the rein and gently pull his head around. If he starts to jerk and throw his head then stop and try again. But DO NOT STOP OR UNSADDLE your horse until he does this to your satisfaction for the day. If you do stop before he will pick up bad habits and think that if he does this then he will get away with it.Good luck!
December 17th, 2009 at 10:22 am
did you try lowering your arms like down to you knees.cause that will also help a lil
December 18th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Try just a plain snaffle bit and do A LOT of lateral (side-to-side) flexing. Always pull with your hand on the same spot on the reins (mark them if you have to) and pull to your hip belt loop. Do not release until A.His feet stop moving and B. His nose touches your foot. Then release like it’s the hotest hot potato you’ve ever touched. That release is his reward and if that’s not done correctly the whole thing falls apart. If he starts throwing his head just keep constant pressure on the rein until you pull it back around and touch your hand to your hip belt loop and leave it there until A. and B. occur. Pretty soon, he should stop throwing his head. If further down the line he totally has flexing down and he keeps doing it, just pop him once and pull him around to flex but only after he has learned how to flex. It wouldn’t be fair to him to start out popping him. Try that for a month and see if it improves. Do it whenever you’re at a stop…Hope that helps!
December 20th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
he is probably just getting used to the hole idea of turning. you could try everytime he tosses his head keep turning till he stops or maybe figures of eight he’ll have to get bored of it sometime.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I don’t like a snaffle for a young horse… always preferred a bosail. But some horses didn’t, so I always went with what that horse liked.
Every horse is different. It isn’t what YOU want to use, it is what your horse will work with. Some are truly resentful of broken bits, some like a grazing bit better—even immediately….. every one is different. Go with the flow of the horse…. both of you will be happier. More really top contenders for just about anything are delayed by trainers who decide that “It’s my way or no way.”
Horses aren’t very bright, and they can only communicate to you their dissatisfaction only so many way… head tossing is one of them, wringing their tails is another, pinning their ears, or just coming unglued and bucking you off.
Martingales are not in and of themselves bad, nor good, nor are draw reins, nor anything else…. that’s why there are so many options for starting a young horse.
If things are not going as you wish, get some professional help for 30 days or so…. well worth it.
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:39 pm
I have encountered this same problem with young horses, mainly in geldings and stallions. If your training so far has been successful and he takes the bit without a problem, then I think you can rule out pain in either the mouth or back. It is quite common for young horses to protest a little when they feel contact on the bit when turning, and is a probably just a phase he will grow out of. you can expeiriment with different ammounts of pressure on your hands- maybe use your outside hand to lend more support.
Also, make sure your bridle is tight enough that he can feel the bit immediatley and understand what you are asking. If this is not the problem, don’t worry- he will grow out of it as his training progresses and he begins to get used to the bit and focus on different things. you can aid this proccess by taking the previous suggestion of working from the ground to teach him to flex his neck from side to side.
**kudos to you for not using a tye-down or martingale, and doing your training the way harder, but much more productive way =) good luck!
December 26th, 2009 at 3:59 am
Whenever you’ve got a horse that’s throwing his head for no obvious reason, the first thing you want to check out is his teeth. Horses should have their teeth ‘floated’ or filed down to keep them safe and comfortable by the time you start training them. I’d suggest having your farrier and vet look at his teeth and give you their opinion, and if he’s never had his teeth floated, call an equine dentist anyway, no matter what your farrier and vet say is/isn’t necessary. The worst that can happen is that he tells you you’re taking too good care of your horse!
Next, I know this sounds rude, but check the cues you’re giving him. Are you just using your reins to pull him around his turns? You need to turn the horse with your whole body-cock your hips a little, turn your head the tiniest bit in the direction you want him to go, press with your leg, THEN use your rein as an aid. Your hands should be your last resort in directing your horse toward anything or anyplace. For instance, I bought my Thoroughbred mare and trained her completely from scratch. She came to me with her head literally touching my nose if I’d sit straight up, and was a total mess and ran and didn’t take cues at all. I can now ride her completely tackless and her be perfectly relaxed.
Now, I have an issue with your training methods. What’s wrong with a martingale? It’s not a ‘tie-down’, it’s an aid to train the horse to recognize his/her boundries. It DOES help with training. You CANNOT AND WILL NOT win a muscle-match with a horse-not EVER-and you can’t expect that a thin piece of leather is actually going to stop this big boy from doing whatever the hell he wants.
But martingales help to give the horse a guideline; it’s like writing on notebook paper as opposed to blank computer paper. You won’t write exactly straight without those little lines to show you how, at least not at first. You can’t expect your horse to just suddenly know exactly where to hold his head, because he can’t and won’t. He sounds like a very responsive animal, so I think that putting a nice loose cob-sized martingale on him will give him just the direction he needs.
If you’ll still refuse that, try draw reins. This is just an extra set of reins that you use to train the horse to bring his head down and relax and go smoothly. It also helps in rounding them out; if he’s throwing his head around turns, he’s definately not balanced-I’d be willing to bet he’s got his back end waaaay under him. My horse was like that when I first got on her as well. Once he learns to bring his head down and stretch his nose out comfortably, his hindquarters will come up behind him and he’ll go nice and round and smooth. It’ll also help you both with halting/slowing down; if he’s not stopping as quick as you’d like it’s probably because he’s not balanced enough.
However, I think you’ll want to try a martingale first, and not bother with draw reins for awhile. Talk to your trainer and find out their opinion.
Don’t be one of those owners that thinks they’re ‘too good’ for training aids. The reasons why those devices were developed were because they WORK. You can’t expect a horse to know what you’re thinking. They aren’t psychic.
Good luck!
December 27th, 2009 at 5:27 am
You mention a broken (snaffle) mouthpiece but don’t tell us whether the bit has shanks. Only a bit without shanks should ever be used for lateral work with direct pull on the reins. For example, an O ring, D ring, or full cheek snaffle. Another choice is a straight rubber bar bit with no shanks. Some people think a Tom Thumb snaffle is okay to use, but the shanks make it a very severe and painful bit for training. If you are already using a proper bit for lateral work, then I’d go back to more ground work on flexing and turning using a rope halter and long lead. Be sure he fully gives to halter pressure in both directions, and easily moves his hindquarters away from flank pressure before riding him again. Your legs and hands can then effectively work together to cue him on the turns without hurting his mouth and fostering bad habits. Before getting moving, have him flex in both directions while standing still…just to warm him up.
December 27th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Check out his link.
December 30th, 2009 at 3:21 am
He’s just being stubborn. When he does this shorten your reins and kick him on. Don’t let him get away with being a jerk.
December 30th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I just started my 2 yr old and she does the same thing, my now 6 yr old done the same when ne was a 3 yr old. You don’t have to use a tie down you can use training forks. Your young horse is trying to resist the bit and push trough it the training forks will keep him from doing this. They make a rubber training fork witch is the way to go since a horse looks for that release point and the rubber will give a little and release when he stops pulling. They keep the head and reins in the right position so that it pulls down instead if straight back. This will also help improve your stop and back up.